John Lilly
John Lilly is a singer/songwriter and journalist who is originally from Chicago and now resides in West Virginia. Having grown up in the outskirts of Chicago, John was able to take in the great blues and folk music that the city had to offer. Some of the performers he saw live include: Willie Dixon, Sunnyland Slim, John Prine, Steve Goodman and many others. Around the age of 14, he acquired his older brother's guitar and along with his singing talent, he began to explore the world of playing music. John took interest in the country music genre and in particular the likes of Jimmie Rodgers and Hank Williams. After many years of living in different cities and honing his musical craft, he settled in West Virginia. Once settled, he began to write many great songs and began paying his road performance dues. He also began to write about music in local country music publications and national magazines. Two of his articles appear in the book about the beginning of country music "The Bristol Sessions... Writings About the Big Bang of Country Music." Today, John is a seasoned professional musician that performs as a solo artist and also with the band Blue Yonder. I recently spoke with John about his career.
R.V.B. - Hey John... congratulations on your music and writing career. How did you get involved with music? Did you come from a musical family?
J.L. - My dad liked to sing a lot and played the harmonica. My mom was an opera lover. I honestly didn't know that the radio worked in the car until I was 16 years old. Every time we got in the car my dad would start singing.
R.V.B. - I see that you were born in Chicago. Did you grow up there?
J.L. - I was born in Chicago and when we were real young we moved to Kansas for about four years. Then we went back to Chicago and my family is still there. I went through grade school and high school in the Chicago suburbs. I went to the University of Illinois for a while and then went to Arizona State. But I'm a Chicago guy.
R.V.B. - When did you start playing music yourself?
J.L. - My mother used to like to tell the story that I would sing Freight Train, Freight Train when I was three years old. One time I got a hold of my dad's harmonica when I had a whole bunch of crackers in my mouth. I clogged up his harmonica so bad, he bought me one. I've been playing music and singing pretty much my whole life.
R.V.B. - When did you pick up the guitar?
J.L. - My brother brought a guitar home when I was about 14 years old. I learned to play it. I still have that old guitar. It's an old nylon string acoustic. By brother said they sold it for $25. It came from a music store where he taught guitar. It has no name on it. It's a handy thing to have around. I have it right here. I leave it where I can grab it at any moment.
R.V.B. - Chicago is primarily known as a blues town. Did you get exposure to the blues?
J.L. - Absolutely! Chicago is a good all-around music town but the blues was a big part of it when I grew up there. I heard and learned a lot of blues.
R.V.B. - Did you see any of the blues artists perform?
J.L. - Yeah, all the time. I saw Willie Dixon, Koco Taylor, Sunnyland Slim, Buddy Guy... a lot of good blues players. I saw B.B. King and Bobby Blue Bland one night. That was a really good show.
R.V.B. - That's some big names. You were lucky to grow up in that area in that respect.
J.L. - I just took that stuff for granted... Spoonful and Sweet Home Chicago. I was also exposed to a lot of country and folk music. I heard a lot of classical music. My dad preferred men's choral groups such as Fred Waring and his Pennsylvanians and the Mitch Miller Orchestra. I had three brothers. Me, my two older brothers and my dad were in a number of men's choruses together. We were in the church choir. I had that kind of singing exposure. Once I got a guitar and got into high school I started exploring different styles of music. I was drawn to folk music at the time. People like John Prine and Steve Goodman.
R.V.B. - Did you ever go to the Earl of Old Town?
J.L. - Yeah, all the time. I went to The Quiet Night more often. It was a nice little club down in Old Town. I saw lots of people there. I saw Goodman and Prine... Martin Mull. Do you know who he is?
R.V.B. - Yeah. He was like a musician/comedian.
J.L. - Yeah... with his Fabulous Furniture... I saw Jaime Brockett. They had an under-18 section and I would go there a lot. At the Earl of Old Town, they weren't supposed to let you in if you weren't 21, but we would sneak in the back door sometimes. I got turned away at the door several times. When I went to the University of Illinois, I got a great musical education... not so much in the classroom. I heard George Benson... Charlie Mingus... Asleep at the Wheel... New Grass Revival. We would be a good stop over between Indianapolis and Des Moines... between Chicago and St. Louis. Champaign was a good college town. It would be a good place to pick up a gig in the mid-week for touring musicians. The weekends featured local bands.
R.V.B. - That's a pretty wide variety of music that you were exposed to. You primarily play country music now. How did you work your way into this genre?
J.L. - I was always attracted to it... especially Jimmie Rodgers and Hank Williams. I was encouraged by people to sing more Hank Williams songs. I had a little break in my voice so I can do the yodel. I started going to folk festivals and was exposed to old-time fiddle music and country duet singing. I followed that back to its source. For a number of years I was involved with instrumental old-time music. I was in string bands and was a professional clog dancer for about four years with a group called The Green Grass Cloggers. Vocally, I was involved with early country music... Jimmie Rodgers, Hank Williams and also George Jones and the Louvin Brothers. The brothers were a big influence on me. I love their songwriting and their whole approach to music. It was very unusual. I could never explain why I was drawn to the music I was drawn to. People in Chicago would say "You're not really from here, are you?" I would say "Actually I am." In a way, I never fit in up there. I moved from Chicago to Champagne, then to Fort Collins, Colorado... California... Tempe, Arizona... Cincinnati, Ohio... Asheville, North Carolina... Nashville, Tennessee... Morganton, North Carolina and then to West Virginia. I traveled around a good bit.
R.V.B. - What brought you to all these places?
J.L. - Usually music and sometimes women.
R.V.B. - That'll do it.
J.L. - Hahaha. Those two things were the main motivators.
R.V.B. - West Virginia is a lot different than some of those other cities where you have hung your hat. It's very rural and very mountainous. Did you go there to settle down?
J.L. - I never intended to settle down in West Virginia but I've been here for around 20 years. I moved up here in '92 so it's already around 25 years. West Virginia is different than anywhere I've ever been. Part of it is the geography... part of it is the rural nature of it and part of it is the predominance of poverty. That shapes people in some ways. It keeps them very self sufficient. They like to make their own music, so there's a pretty high premium of live acoustic music here. Especially the songwriting community. I think it comes from the do-it-yourself attitude that people in West Virginia have. They're not afraid to make up their own music. People still like to hear covers and familiar songs but there's a good songwriting community in West Virginia and I appreciate that.
R.V.B. - Are there enough venues around to showcase these skills?
J.L. - Well we keep busy. There's a real good radio show called Mountain Stage. Have you heard of that?
R.V.B. - Yes... it used to be on Fordham University radio up here every Friday afternoon... great live program. I actually listened to your appearance on there on Youtube.
J.L. - I've been on their several times. It's a great gig! They have had some big names on there. The city puts on a summer concert series called "Live on the Levee." I've played that several times. For the size of the population, there's a surprisingly vibrant music scene.
R.V.B. - Have you ever been on a bill with someone fairly famous?
J.L. - Yeah, over the years. When I was with the Cloggers, we were with a lot of well-known people. We opened for George Jones and Randy Travis one time. That was kinda fun... down in Texas. We had been on bills with Charlie Daniels. We opened for the Ralph Stanley and the Clinch Mountain Boys once.
R.V.B. - You are also involved with preserving culture and writing about it... how did you get involved with that?
J.L. - I've always been a writer. When I was young - on a rainy day - I'd sit around and read the dictionary for entertainment. I eventually got a job at the Country Music Hall of Fame and Museum in Nashville. I had access to a lot of texts about country music. I ended up writing articles for a couple of magazines... The Old Time Herald and Bluegrass Unlimited. I eventually ended up as the editor for the Goldenseal magazine... for the state of West Virginia. I wrote a lot of articles for Goldenseal as well. I did that for 18 years.
R.V.B. - That was some nice work that you did there. You helped preserve the culture of your area. How do you feel about you role in that?
J.L. - I left behind a whole bunch of pages of texts. I hope people enjoy it. I get a lot of nice comments from people about it. I feel real good about my work at Goldenseal. We try to present the culture of the state from the ground level. It wasn't over glamorizing it or looking up at it. It was about the people in West Virginia and how they live... what kind of music they play... what kind of work they do... how they talk. There are people featured in Goldenseal who were never featured anywhere else. It's a journal of record for a lot of the topics we had covered... including music. We covered a lot of musicians from the area. We were happy to feature them.
R.V.B. - It does leave a historical stamp. How did you get involved with The Bristol Sessions book?
J.L. - I knew Charles Wolfe from when I worked in Nashville. Charles was kind of the dean of country music historians. I knew him through some connections at the Country Music Hall of Fame Museum. I knew Ted Olson through music and I also knew him through the Goldenseal. He was a regular contributor to Goldenseal. I had always been very interested in Jimmie Rodgers. I ran a series of articles in the Old Time Herald magazine. I think it was called Old Time Music Pioneers. They wanted me to write articles about country music people who were successful in the early country music days. I wrote articles about the Carter Family... the Delmore Brothers... Coon Creek Girls... Jimmie Rodgers, and a number of other pioneers. Charles and Ted became aware about some of my writings about Jimmie Rodgers. The two pieces I have in the book are basically a re-print of what I previously wrote for magazines. The Jimmie Rodgers piece for the Bristol book was an expanded version of an article that originally appeared in the Old-Time Herald (Volume 3, Number 3). The West Virginia Coon Hunters piece originally appeared in Goldenseal magazine (Volume 29, Number 1), later republished in the Old-Time Herald (Volume 8, Number 7).
R.V.B. - There wasn't a whole lot of information available on the Coon Hunters. You did a good job of helping to visualize their story.
J.L. - Thanks. There was not much to go on. I reported on what I did know and tried to find out what I didn't know. Different people drifted in and out of the group. We don't know who was actually at the Bristol Sessions so I narrowed it down to a few names. With the Jimmie Rodgers piece, there was more available information to go on.
R.V.B. - I found it very informative. You pointed out that he was a traveler and not so much a holy roller. He took some chances in his life. He had a great network with musicians. The story about the day of the sessions, where he quit the group he was in, and went in as a solo artist.
J.L. - He was a risk taker for sure.
R.V.B. - But he also had to provide for his family... hence all of the railroad jobs. All of this enhanced his music knowledge.
J.L. - I think what he responded to was necessity. The Tenneva Ramblers and Jimmie Rodgers parted ways at Bristol, he had to come up with something. When he had the chance to record, he came up with something. When he had the chance to record again - again out of necessity - came up with some songs. He came up with a guitar style. He found out people liked the yodeling so he concentrated on that. He was kind of a desperate guy. He was not far from starvation and had a terminal disease and a family to support... to boot. He figured out what he could do to make ends meet. I don't think he ever dreamed of the impact that he would have or the career he would find.
R.V.B. - That goes with the Carter Family as well. Two totally different paths and ways of approaching music and they were both tremendously successful.
J.L. - It's funny how they intersected at the Bristol Sessions. They crossed paths a few times over the next few years. Mostly the result of Ralph Peer, trying to bring them both together. Have you heard the Carter Family Meets Jimmie Rodgers and Jimmie Rodgers Meets the Carter Family recordings?
R.V.B. - I have... and to tell you the truth, I'm not that impressed with them. I think they tried to make something happen by throwing them together and nothing happened.
J.L. - I think you're right. I did think the Sara Carter and Jimmie Rodgers duet was good. It's clear that they had separate paths and didn't really have an association with each other. In fact they didn't really cross paths in Bristol. They were there several days apart.
R.V.B. - With the diverse musical artists that were recorded at the Bristol Sessions, do you think that the isolation and the rural area musicians at those sessions is similar to what it's like in West Virginia?
J.L. - That's an interesting question. It's kind of different. West Virginia is not totally out of the loop - with the internet and the modern entertainment world - but there's a lot of stuff that goes on here. Like my son and I play music here together sometimes. He had a gig in a little town called Auburn, West Virginia. We were up there on Saturday night and he sang the ballad Barbra Allen, and some woman came up to him and said "I hadn't heard that song in 30 years" and thanked him for singing it. That's not likely to happen in Cleveland or Long Island. There's a tie to rural traditional music in West Virginia that might be more prominent here, than it is elsewhere. But there's also a lot of variety here. There's jazz... classical... rock... rap, and all kinds of music in West Virginia. I don't mean to paint West Virginia as all log cabins and hillbillies.
R.V.B. - Everybody's part of the modern times now. There's no getting away from the internet. The internet is a very good thing for music, in rural areas as well as urban areas.
J.L. - Not only the internet but Facebook in particular. It's a very useful tool to promote your shows and music.
R.V.B. - You mentioned diversity in West Virginia music... I understand you met the avant garde composer George Crumb at the West Virginia Music Hall of Fame induction.
J.L. - I met modern composer George Crumb when he was inducted into the West Virginia Music Hall of Fame in, I believe, the fall of 2007. Other inductees that year included Bill Withers, Billy Edd Wheeler, Hazel Dickens, Little Jimmy Dickens, Blind Alfred Reed, Clark Kessinger and others. There was a good bit of “down” time during rehearsals and run-throughs, and I did my best to meet and mingle with our honorees during that time. My conversations with George Crumb were brief and casual, but satisfying and informative. The induction ceremony took place at the Cultural Center (now called the Culture Center) on the West Virginia State Capitol Complex, and George told me that he grew up literally at that location. His boyhood home was physically moved to make room for the Cultural Center in the 1970s. We also spoke a little about his music, including his unique methods of notation. He was lighthearted and friendly. I seriously doubt that he would recall our visit, but it made a positive impression on me.
R.V.B. - Can you tell me what your duties were at the Country Music Hall of Fame Museum?
J.L. - I was a tour guide. My sole responsibility was to take tourists and school children through the museum... keep them on schedule and answer their questions, and tell them a little bit about what they're viewing.
I knew the museum inside and out, and I knew a great deal about the articles on display. The museum also ran a studio called RCA Studio B. It's about two blocks from the old Hall of Fame. The new one is now downtown on a street near Broadway. I worked at the old one. When I was not giving tours and had some downtime, I would sit in Studio B. We did tours of there as well. We would hang out, and sometimes we would write songs. At the main museum, I took every opportunity I could to interact with the research staff... the historians and writers. Some of them were quite gracious to me. I would go down into the research area whenever I could. I learned a lot by interacting with Charles Wolfe, Bob Pinson, Paul Kingsbury and the editorial staff there.
R.V.B. - I admire your gumption. I'm sure it helped you with your future writings.
J.L. - I'm a curious person by nature. I'm always searching for information, details and get the spelling right.
R.V.B. - I presume you've played in Nashville. Have you ever performed at the Bluebird?
J.L. - Yes, I've played at the Bluebird... I've played Douglas Corner... Puckett's. I've always wanted to play the Opry. When I was living there, there was a television network called "The Nashville Network." They had quite a few shows that you could get on as a performer. So I was on the Nashville Network a number of times. I was on a show called "You Can Be a Star," which is a talent competition show. It was really a fun thing to do if you just felt like going down there. You could go to one of these tapings and see some great people. There was a show called "Nashville Now" that Ralph Emery would host. He had all kinds of people... Chet Atkins... Dolly Parton. You could go see them for free. One time they had a show that was like a game show called "Top Card." You had to answer country music trivia questions. I went on and was all over that. If you got the questions correct, they would give you one of these great big cards. It was more or less like playing blackjack. You had to get as close to 21 without going over. I answered all the questions that they asked, right off the bat. I got up to 20 points. One person went over and the third person had like 18 points, so he had to get the question correct and hit 21 points. He had to pull a three. He did both and beat me.
R.V.B. Hahaha. Oh well. You did all you could do. What do you think of today's country music?
J.L. - Hahaha. I don't listen to a lot of modern country music. I don't hear the melodies... I don't hear the lyrics. The songs don't resonate with me... generally speaking. There are a few people that I like. I like Tyler Childers real well... I like Jason Isbell... Gillian Welsh is very good... I like Marty Stuart.
R.V.B. - I have a Gillian Welsh album and pretty much every song is depressing on it.
J.L. - Yeah, she's pretty sad. There's nothing wrong with that. She's really worth seeing. I like a woman named Brennen Leigh and another named Nora Jane Struthers. There's a lot of good acts out there. You got to go find them. They're not getting on the radio. One thing I learned coming out of the Hall of Fame is there's always been a part of the country music industry that's looking to reach the broadest possible audience... with pop music influences. They've done that ever since Vernon Dalhart. It's more or less still happening today. People are trying to add hip hop influences to country music.
R.V.B. - Vernon was promoted that way but I think the artists that are unusual will eventually overshadow the pop influence artists in the long run. What are you proud about with your accomplishments in music?
J.L. - I think over the years, I've slowly but surely developed a songwriting style that I can be proud of. Lately I have been going back over some of my older material. There are some songs that I maybe have forgotten about. I think I've written a lot of good songs. I've got a good catalog of original material. My band Blue Yonder plays almost all original material that I have written. My solo act is an entirely different repertoire. I've got quite a few albums of original material that I have recorded. I'm really proud of that body of work. The original songs and the recordings I've made of them.
R.V.B. - You mentioned Blue Yonder. You have a couple of good players in that band.
J.L. - Robert Shafer is a great guitar player. I'm glad to have him in the band. Will Carter is a good bass player. He's kind of an entrepreneur. He's the one who really manages the band and pulled the band together in the first place. He's a good judge of material. I bring songs to him and he determines if the band can do them. We have a steel player whose name is Russ Hicks. Whenever he's available we use him. We have other steel players that we use as well. We have a drummer named Tom Kirk. He plays with us locally. We use other drummers when we go out on the road sometimes.
R.V.B. - What do you have going on these days?
J.L. - We've been working with a promoter and manager in LA who is trying to get us on more of a National stage... festivals and high profile gigs. We've been making progress. We've been on a number of radio shows. We just finished a tour. We went to Nashville, Knoxville, Chattanooga and a few other places. The next step for the band is to go touring on a more National level. We're working to try to go to Europe next year.
R.V.B. - Very nice. It sounds like you've got a lot of exciting things happening. Thanks for sharing your story.
J.L. - Thanks for asking.
Interview conductd by Robert von Bernewitz
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