Ronnie Williams
Ronnie Williams is a guitarist/autoharpist and singer who grew up on a farm in the rural town of Spotsylvania, Virginia. In his youth, he would listen to Carter family records after his farm chores were done for the day. One evening he saw The Carter Family appear on the Johnny Cash variety TV show and noticed how talented Maybelle Carter was on the autoharp, as well as the guitar. This sent him in motion to collect Carter Family records and learn how to play that style music on the guitar and autoharp himself. When the Carter family would appear live in the region where he lived, he would make a point to go and see their show. One thing led to another and he would eventually become friends with them. They quickly took notice of his musical ability and would invite him to play a song or two with them. After a few trips to the Carter Fold, where he would meet the likes of Sara, Janette, Joe, June, Helen, Anita, Johnny Cash and other family members, he would be asked to play there as well. Over time, Ronnie would develop a strong relationship with Helen... Maybelle's oldest daughter... and they would practice pickin' together. This is where Ronnie would get valuable tips on how to play Maybelle's "Carter Scratch" method of playing. He became the - go to guy - for family members to use when they perform. Today you will see him appear regularly with Lorrie Carter Bennett... Anita's daughter... at major venues. He also has his own act that plays the regional Appalachian area and showcases Carter Family music. I recently talked with Ronnie about his affiliation with the Carter Family and how he has now become close friends with them.
R.V.B. - Hey Ronnie.... This is Rob von Bernewitz from Long Island, New York... How are you today?
R.W. - Alright... How are you doing?
R.V.B. - I'm doing pretty good. Thank you for taking this time. What city did you grow up in?
R.W. - I grew up in a little place called Spotsylvania, Virginia.
R.V.B. - I presume that it was a very rural town?
R.W. - It still is. Not like it used to be but yeah!
R.V.B. - What did you do for fun as a kid?
R.W. - I grew up on a farm... of course we had a lot of farm work to do. I fooled with cattle and chickens. I still got those things to fool with.
R.V.B. - What kind of music were you exposed to around the house? Did your parents have a record player?
R.W. - Yeah, I had a record player. My brother had a record player that would just play 45's. Then we got one that would play the bigger records. My Grandparents... who lived next door... they had the old windup Victrola. You had to wind it up to put the records on. I grew up playing with that. I'd go upstairs at their house and play with it. I'd put records on it and crank it up and let it play.
R.V.B. - What kind of music did they have?
R.W. - They had country music... Gene Autry... The Carter Family... The Stonemans, My grandfather got a Victrola way back when they first came out. I think he was the first one in the community to have one. Then he was the first one in the community to have a radio. People would come over and listen to the radio. They ran an old country store also so people were in and out all the time.
R.V.B. - Was there a place in town to buy the Victrola?
R.W. - They went to Sears & Roebuck and Montgomery Ward. I'm pretty certain the Victrola might have come from there.
R.V.B. - What were some of the first records that you bought?
R.W. - The first records I bought were Carter Family records. I got interested in them. I would go to the record store to see what they had. If they didn't have what I wanted, I would look in the catalog to see what was available. That's how I started collecting records. I still have them. I have multiple copies of some of them. Every time I see one I usually buy it. I have quite a collection of 78s... of The Carter Family. I have both the original and Maybelle and the girls. I have a lot of records that they put out on 45s... 33s.
R.V.B. - You sound like me. I have a big collection myself.
R.W. - After I got to know the Carters, Mother Maybelle would tell me which one's she didn't have and I'd try to find them for her. I would go to record stores. When I first started collecting records, they had record auctions... you could bid on them. A guy in Kentucky, who ran The Carter Family fan club, hooked me up with the auctions. I'd get them in the mail. You would place a bid on them and they would notify you if you were the highest bidder. I won quite a few of them. I found some places that dealt with used records... I'd hit flea markets and antique shops. One place in Richmond Virginia had nothing but records. There was just stacks of records. There was all genres... country... rock... folk. He would put all the Carter Family records aside for me.
R.V.B. - Did you collect any other artists besides the Carter Family?
R.W. - The Carter Family and Johnny Cash... mostly.
R.V.B. - How did you get started with playing music?
R.W. - I started watching the Carters on the Johnny Cash TV show when I was just a young kid. I fell in love with the way that Mother Maybelle played. I got an autoharp first. I tried to play it. Then I finally got a guitar. I started working on that. I would listen to the records that I had bought and try to get that sound that they got.
R.V.B. - That "Carter scratch" style is not easy to copy.
R.W. - No it's not. People say it's a simple style of playing. If you sit down to try to play it... it's not a simple style. Hahaha... I've played with a lot of people since I've been fooling with music... that play a lot better than I do... but they can't play the Carter scratch. You have to get that thumb and the fingers to do a certain thing.
I was fortunate. After I started fooling with music, Helen Carter... who is Mother Maybelle's oldest daughter... would come up this way and do shows. She would stay with me and show me a lot. She would never say "You're doing it wrong," she would just say "Now we did it this way!" We'd sit down and pick and sing. Sometimes Anita would come with her. We'd do shows at the fairs. We did a couple of TV shows.
R.V.B. - They would come up to do shows and you eventually worked your way into playing with them?
R.W. - Yeah... they'd let you pick with them. The first time that they found out I could play, Helen said "You pick just like mama. You got that style... you've been studying." I said "Well I've been working on it. She couldn't get over that. I don't think that they could believe that somebody was interested in their music like that... but they influenced a lot of people.
R.V.B. - They sure did. Do you think the isolation of rural Appalachian Virginia was a benefit to The Carter Family... where they didn't have the outside commercial influences?
R.W. - I think so. If you go down to that part of the country, a lot of people play and sing some style of music. There wasn't a lot to do back then. When the work was over they'd sit down and play and sing... on the porches and in the living rooms. It was their source of entertainment. Everybody grew up pickin' and singing.
R.V.B. - When you were working with Helen, were you a teenager?
R.W. - Yes I was a teenager. I met mother Maybelle around 1969. I got to know her really well. We'd talk on the phone and if they'd come anywhere close, then I'd go see them. Then we started visiting. I went to see them at the first Carter Family festival in 1975. Sara was there also and I got to meet her. I went back every year for the festival. I've missed but a very few. I went to Macs Springs in Aug 1978 for The Festival and thinking Maybelle would be there. When I got there I went to her brothers home to see Mother Maybelle and her sister in law said are you Ronnie? Maybelle went back to Nashville. She was not feeling well and said for you to come to Nashville if you wanted to. Off I went and I"m so glad I did. We visited one afternoon and again the next day. She talked of her life in traveling and told me stories I will never forget. She kept saying she was sorry she was not a good host, she couldn't cook a meal or pick for me. I said do you know what it means for me to just sit and talk to you? I had her a cake made and carried it to her with her name on it and she acted so pleased. We had a wonderful visit and I will never forget it. That was in Aug and she passed in Oct.. I talked to her about two days before she passed. She said Sara was not doing any good in Ca. She had her bags packed because if Sara died they would be going to Va. Two days later I get the news Mother Maybelle had died in her sleep. A very sad sad day for me. I just kept thinking this can not be.
R.V.B. - These festivals were held at the fold?
R.W. - Yes, but the first one was held outside on a flatbed tractor and trailer. They had built a cover over it for the stage. They built the fold in 1976. All they had was the little store in 1975... that A.P. had run. Now it's a museum.
R.V.B. - I believe there's a short documentary on line of the festival being outside.
R.W. - It was really hot that day... out in the sun. They did two shows... one in the afternoon and one in the evening. it was just an honor to be there and see it.
R.V.B. - What a great thing that Joe and Janette did by keeping the music alive.
R.W. - There wouldn't be a fold if Janette and Joe didn't have the push to keep their parents music going.
R.V.B. - You've played a few shows with Janette.
R.W. - I played a lot of shows with Janette. If I pass through going to Nashville or somewhere I'll always stop at the fold. Janette, Joe and I would pick together. After Joe passed away, I used to go down there and help Janette some. She called me one time and said "Honey... are you coming down this weekend?" and I said "No, I hadn't planned on it." Her son... Dale... was working somewhere away at the time and she said "Dale may not be here. Why don't you come down and pick with me." So I did... I headed for Bristol. It's a 5 1/2 hour ride for me. It's 320 miles from my house to Bristol and another 320 miles from Bristol to Nashville.
R.V.B. - So your town is more toward the east side of Virginia.
R.W. - Janette lived in the southwest tip of Virginia... over near Gate City. I'm in the middle between Washington D.C. and Richmond Virginia. I live in the house where my grandfather was born and raised. My mother and all of her brothers and sisters were born here too.
R.V.B. - You have people in your area that play in your group "The Carter Family Sound?"
R.W. - I do. I've had several different members over the years. Two of the ladies that used to play with me passed away. They had health problems. Now I've got a couple of guys that help me. One plays bass and one plays the guitar. Lorrie... who is Anita's daughter... lives in Nashville. Her and I do a lot of things together. We do the festival every year. We do a couple of shows in Nashville every year. It's something that Lorrie is involved in called "Next Generation." It's sons and daughters of people like The Carter Family, Faron Young and Jean Sheppard. The children get together and do a show every year. Lorrie and I have done that for the last three years.
R.V.B. - That sounds like a lot of fun.
R.W. - It is... and it draws a huge crowd. They have it in nice venues.
R.V.B. - I'm sure it's an opportunity to get to meet a lot of people.
R.W. - I have met a lot of nice people. Fans and musicians. Fans and artists who become close friends.
R.V.B. - I see that you've worked with Carlene a few times also.
R.W. - I've played several times with Carlene. Carlene is a real sweet person. She's doing real good now. She's got her little band and she's on the road doing things. I went to see her here in Richmond Virginia not too long ago. She put on a really good show.
R.V.B. - She was touring with John Mellencamp... right?
R.W. - Yes... but she's not with him anymore. She's on her own now.
R.V.B. - What are some of your favorite performance moments?
R.W. - The first time that I got to play at the fold was in 1976... right after they built it. Mother Maybelle and Sara were there but they didn't perform. They performed at the first one in 75. In 76, they were there as guests. They brought them in and seated them to watch the entertainment. Grandpa Joneses wife was there and her group. Janette had seen me outside playing and came over to me in the audience and got right in front of me and said "Honey, now you're gonna play for mama and Maybelle. Get your stuff ready... get ready to play now." She didn't ask me if I would. She said "You're going to!" You talk about being nervous.
R.V.B. - Hahaha... I could imagine.
R.W. - That sure was an honor. Right after I played... the lady who took care of mother Maybelle... kind of her companion had to go do something... and said "I want you to come sit with Maybelle, in case she needs anything. When I sat down, Mother Maybelle took me by the hand and said "You did really good." That's all she said. She didn't elaborate but that meant a lot to me. Then playing with Helen and Anita on stage was always an honor. Also... getting to play with Lorrie, like I do. We've done a lot of shows. It always means a lot to play with one of the Carters.
R.V.B. - They're historic. Americas first family of country music.
R.W. - Lorrie and I played the Midnight Jamboree in Nashville twice... at the Ernest Tubb Record Shop. Like I said we've done the Next Generation show around three times. We've played the Nashville Palace. We did The Song of the Mountains which is a TV show in Marion Virginia. We've been on that twice. We've done some special things.
R.V.B. - Do you feel that your guitar playing has improved through the years?
R.W. - Oh yeah! I feel that it has. You always learn something new.
R.V.B. - What kind of guitar do you use?
R.W. - I use an L 5 Gibson like Mother Maybelle's. The only difference between mine and hers is, hers had the little dots on the neck and mine has the block inlays. Hers is a 1928 model and mine is a 1929.
R.V.B. - You have the real deal.
R.W. - I found it at a music store in Nashville called Gruhn Guitars. I called Helen and I was telling her about it. This was back in 1984. It just so happened that they were filming a show at the Ryman the next day. She said "If I have time, I'll go by there and look at it." It's a couple of blocks down from the old Grand Ole Opry building. "If I don't have time, I'll send one of my friends down there to look at it." She called my about 2 o'clock in the morning and told me that it looked just like her moms. She said the neck felt just like playing her moms guitar. "I think you'll be happy with it. I talked to him and he said he'll send it to you on a 24 hour approval. If you like it... you send him the money... if you don't like it... ship it back to him." I said "I'll call him and tell him to send it on." I called him that morning and had him ship it to me. I've been playing it ever since. It's a nice guitar. It really works good for what I do because it's got that Carter Family sound.
R.V.B. - What kind of autoharp do you have?
R.W. - I've had an Oscar Schmidt ever since I've been playing. Most of the time I play the autoharp that Mother Maybelle played... for the last 10 years that she worked. I've got her autoharp that she played. I use that most of the time. Once in a while I'll have to play another one. Hers doesn't have but 15 bars on it. That limits the chords you can play on it. I like hers because it has a different sound to it.
R.V.B. - Do you play with your own band at the fold... other than festivals?
R.W. - I'm down there about at least three or four times a year. In January I did a little guest spot with the McClain Family. They've also been playing the fold ever since it has been opened. They do the first show of every year. They're a band out of Kentucky... Raymond McClain and the McClain Family. They started out with their daddy and of course he's gone now. They've been playing the fold ever since Janette opened it. They used to play in the store before the fold existed.
R.V.B. - Was the maximum capacity around 40 people? Haha
R.W. - They probably had an overflow. That's when Janette had to move it outside because they all couldn't fit.
R.V.B. - Did you catch any of the Johnny Cash shows there?
R.W. - Oh Yeah! I was there for most of them.
R.V.B. - What kind of vibe was going on there at that time?
R.W. - When Johnny Cash came in, the valley was blocked up. There wasn't enough parking and the place was packed. The fold is an unusual building. The back and sides can open so that you can have mountainside seating... with blankets and lawn chairs. When Johnny came, they sold what they call "Hillside Seats." The whole mountainside would be filled when Johnny was there. It was something to see. He would come up with Helen, June and Anita from Nashville.
R.V.B. - From what I understand they didn't even advertise it... it was from word of mouth.
R.W. - A lot of times they wouldn't but on one particular show a year, they would, because it was a benefit for the fold. He would donate the proceeds to the fold... for the preservation of The Carter Family music. They would occasionally just show up on a Saturday night and do a guest spot. You never knew when some of them were going to be in the valley. Johnny did his last two shows at the fold. June came a few times to the fold also.
R.V.B. - It's a great American story that Janette carried it on without looking for much commercial success and did it for the music.
R.W. - That's right... she did. Janette was a hard working lady. You might be down there on a Saturday night and she'd be dressed in her stage clothes playing music. You may be there on a weekday and she'd be cutting grass or scrubbing the floors. They have a concrete dance floor and she would scrub it every week. She did all this stuff herself... she booked the talent. She did everything.
R.V.B. - Now her daughter Rita Forrester has carried on the tradition of running the fold in the same kind of capacity.
R.W. - Right. Rita works 24 hours a day. I don't know how the woman does it. She works a full time job and also takes care of the fold. She has a lot of great volunteers that help out. Rita is very much like her mom. She runs a real tight ship. She expects a certain behavior when you're at the fold. Janette was real strict and Rita is also real strict.
R.V.B. - This may be an obvious question but what are you proud about of your life in music so far?
R.W. - I'm proud that people enjoy what I do. I get told more and more... and I never realizes this, until lately... because now I'm getting older... but I have a lot of young people that I've met, either on Facebook, or at the fold, or at shows, say that "We wouldn't be playing guitar if not for the interest we got from what you do. Then we look back and find out it came from the Carter Family." That makes you feel good. I didn't realize that I influenced anybody like that. I'm just trying to keep the music that Mother Maybelle and The Carter Family did, alive. Now I get told that I'm one of the few people that can really play her style. That makes me feel good as well. I don't play any way good as she did but I get told that it would be a lost art if I didn't continue the tradition or her style. I just do what I was taught. I had good teachers like Helen. She helped me an awful lot. Mother Maybelle helped me a little bit. By the time I met her, she stopped playing the guitar for health reasons... in about 1974. She didn't feel like she was doing it justice so she would play the autoharp. She gave the guitar playing to Helen. If she wasn't at her best, she didn't want to play it.
R.V.B. - I'm a guitar player myself and I've watched some of your video's... I'm impressed with your playing. You play the "Carter scratch" style very well and are doing a great job carrying on the tradition.
R.W. - I appreciate that. I wish I could do it better than I do it. I do the best I can.
R.V.B. - I think you're a little hard on yourself.
R.W. - Thank you. My first interest was the autoharp. I loved to watch Maybelle play autoharp on TV. Then she was featured with the guitar and I thought that was neat! Then Helen helped me a lot. Then Helen went in the hospital and never came out. She was really sick. She was in and out of the hospital a lot in her life. She had a lot of stomach issues. Every time she went in, everyone figured she'll stay in for a week or two and be back out. That time she didn't. She had stomach surgery and stayed in the hospital for almost two years. I went to visit her four times. I flew down and stay four days at a time. I'd spend it back and forth with Helen and Anita. I found an autoharp that was very much like her mothers and she said "Ronnie... let me hold that and see if I could play it. I've been in the hospital so long, I'm weak." She picked up the autoharp and played a little bit on it... to see what she could do. She said to me "I don't want you to quit pickin'. Don't you let our music die. When I get my feet back under me, I'm gonna put my thumb right back there with yours." That meant so much to me. I think about that statement every time I think about slowing down. She would want you to keep on playing. it was really on her mind that The Carter Family music wouldn't carry on. She continued her mom's style of picking after her mom gave it up. She took it and did a fine job with it.
R.V.B. - You're the closest thing to it now. I understand your a very good friend of the family.
R.W. - They've told me that I've been adopted. That's a good family to be adopted by.
R.V.B. - Hahaha. They'll start calling you Ronnie Carter Williams.
R.W. - June used to introduce me as "Brother Maybelle."
R.V.B. - So you just got back from the Maxine Brown funeral. How as that experience?
R.W. - I couldn't believe I got asked to play a few songs. We played the Next Generation show last year and the Brown children were there. Jim Ed had a daughter and granddaughter there. Maxine had a daughter there. They all sang a few Brown songs together. They were really good. I was amazed at the sound that they had. I've always loved the Browns harmony. I met them and got to talk to them. When the show was over, Maxine's daughter came over and hugged me with a tear in her eye. She said "You made me cry! Listening to your playing tonight has just touched me." I said "I knew it was bad but I didn't know it was that bad."
R.V.B. - Hahaha.
R.W. - She laughed and said "I just love the way you played." So that was the last I saw of her. That was in June. On Christmas eve the phone rang and it was her daughter Alicia. She said "I don't want to ruin your Christmas eve but I've got to ask you this question. Mom is not doing well and she's not going to be with us much longer. Is there any way that you could come and play for her funeral?" I said "Yes I could. It certainly is an honor for you to ask me." She said I showed her mom what we did at the Next Generation show and she said "That boy is the real deal." I said to her "That mean a lot to me to hear that. I appreciate it." Alicia's husband told me that I was the first person that they called to see if I would be a part of it. I called Lorrie and she agreed to do it. She also said "That is an honor to be asked." Lorrie and I both went. The Whites were there... Buck White and his two daughters Shannon and Sheryl. They backed Lorrie and I up and they did a song at the end. It was a real nice service and it was a real honor to be there. I would never thought I would be asked to do something like that. Lorrie felt the same way... it was an honor for her as well. I Played Wildwood Flower... they didn't want any singing on that. We did an old song that the Lewis family used to do called Just One Rose Will Do. Lorrie wasn't familiar with it but I knew the song so I sang that. Alicia requested it. Then Lorrie sang lead on Will The Circle Be Unbroken. It was a very tasteful service. Her family had a very big part in the service and it was real touching. She touched their lives not only as a performer but as a mother and grandmother... a witty grandmother. She had quite a bit of spunk. She didn't mind what she told you sometimes.
R.V.B. - She told it like it is.
R.W. - Her granddaughter met this guy who preached at the funeral. They got married and he's a minister now. He said the first time he met Maxine, "This was a breeze. All the old people like me. I'm a good young man and I get along good with the elderly people." The granddaughter took him over to meet her and said they were on their way to the prom. Maxine looked at him and said "Well... I thought you had a boy taking you to the prom? I didn't know a girl was taking you." He had this long hair. He said "I got bum dirt that time." He said she really worked him over.
R.V.B. - Hahaha.
R.W. - Then he said they got to be best of friends. She'd call on him for everything.
R.V.B. - She just set the ground rules. Hahaha. What do you have going on these days... what's on the agenda?
R.W. - I've been doing a lot of things around here. I played a place in Fredricksburg called the "Recreation Center." I do shows there once in a while. It's not a big place but they have music there every weekend. I was kind of leery of it because I've never played there before. It's more or less a bar... they serve alcohol and have a pool table. The first night we played it, there wasn't a seat or a table left... packed it out. The second time we played it, we had bad weather. It was still a good crowd but not as crowded as the first time. The lady has been asking for us to come back, so we're working on amother date. I do some church events. Anybody that calls, I try to help out. I do a lot of benefits... I like to help people. We have a show at the fold in April that's called "Clinch Mountain Music Fest." There's four to five groups. It will start in the afternoon and go until around midnight. Lorrie and I are going to do our part on that.
R.V.B. - You're a good man... you're doing good work... and you're carrying on a tradition. That shows the kind of person that you are. Congratulations on your career. Keep carrying the torch and playing the good music.
R.W. - I appreciate it. It's also an honor to talk to you.
R.V.B. - Thank you. Have a great day.
Interview conducted by Robert von Bernewitz
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